do you need plastic under concrete driveway

I have a 140 foot driveway and need to know if I can lay gravel over the grass. The paint store said to put on this armor 2 part epoxy paint and it should resist the moisture. Gloria Broming. Sometimes this is in the fine print, so it’s always best to ask specifically. Concrete is the most popular option for driveways, and for good reasons. Not sure what the standards are in your area, water table depth and drainage considerations might make plastic right for your area. Concrete is an excellent driveway material. Hello, Under hot conditions, above 80 degrees F, frequently water it down with a garden hose to keep it moist. I must also add that we find that most of the floor area other than where the defects are to have very low/no moisture. I have had people suggest diamond grading it and putting stamped overlay down and then I have had people say it will just come back up through that too because there no vapor barrier under my patio. I was wondering if it would be a reasonable plan to spread a layer of fibered roof coating over the existing concrete to make a seamless vapor barrier before pouring the 4″ slab over it? Vapor barriers are used because while fresh concrete is poured wet, it’s not supposed to stay that way. All the hardwood was ruined. In some states, the height of the driveway above even ground and the width of the driveway you plan to make it may each determine whether or not you need to pull a permit. The wood lasted for a good while (old saw mill type) and we replaced the rotted wood almost 4 years ago. It will have a laminate floor when done. After a drain backup ruined the rug we decided to upgrade with a porcelain 6×24″ tile so our floor could withstand any future pipe issues. ... Do you need to remove the ads? Thanks for the question. Especially due to this being a flooding situation, I think the “sealer” is warranted. Thanks for the question. possible need for transition zones) for the remainder of the driveway, especially on steep slopes with short distances from the boundary to the house. Two shorter run areas have screws that we have discovered that are supposedly to keep the floor from buckling and the screws are in about 24 ft runs. Thanks for the email. Just a sump-pump tied to a single floor drain. I’m planning to build a shed, approx. Moisture in concrete can occur from a variety of sources: ground moisture that contacts the slab through either capillary action or as water vapor, high air humidity or drastic changes in relative humidity in its environment, leaking plumbing that passes through the slab, and more. Base: What goes under your driveway is just as important as the driveway itself. A concrete mix of 1 part cement : 2 parts sand : 4 parts coarse aggregate should be used for a concrete slab. After my recent rain damage, I pulled up the carpet and there was already mold and smaller mold spores forming. Thanks! Also is 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 trowel best for this size of tile? My question is simple for the stick built issues, what is the best and most economical way to replace the failing OSB and what is the best vapor barrier to use over it when it is replaced. We had a moisture test done on the concrete with calcium chloride (72 hrs) and that showed no moisture in the concrete, it was just between the moisture barrier and wood. The patio will have an open screen cage on it . I am sure you probably already have, but I would go back to the respective manufacturers’ installation documents and/or contact them directly with your situation and get their guidance. ASTM International gives specific guidelines in ASTM E1745-17 and ASTM E1643 for the use, installation, and inspection of vapor barriers used under concrete slabs. 4 0 obj It makes me wonder if that may potentially be a perfect environment for mold growth. Thanks for the comments. Y^��UY%��g�U���]E��T�>��NY3;9%�ߞ�s^�[G)�7?�\Qeu�dr��2�d� Because the concrete slab is floating – that’s how basements are built in Canada – if moisture was to penetrate between the slab and vapour barrier, would that compromise the concrete slab over time? Eight months later the floor is buckling. Apparently I may have made worse because we just had to replace the sub flooring again here within the last month. Efforescent and moisture more to middle of floor than near walls. Would pouring a new slab over the existing one be something to consider? I would want to test in the concrete section (in situ relative humidity testing), not just the surface of the concrete. Usually, if you aren’t looking at putting a finish on the concrete, you have no issues with the moisture in the concrete. I have no tiling system. If you think the concrete sealer is warranted, is there a particular product you recommend? Capillary action can be stopped by installing something called a capillary break, a layer … I’m desperate for resolution. These usually aren’t inexpensive, but they are better that some alternatives like replacing flooring or replacing the concrete slab. Unfortunately, the re-purposing of areas, whether commercial or residential, can lead to problems like this. Thanks for the comments. there are 2 20″ wide and 1 4′ wide 8″ deep food trough that are in the floor. When utilizing a true vapor retarder such as https://www.stegoindustries.com/stego-wrap-vapor-barriers?hsCtaTracking=d654940e-2168-473c-934d-ed294b689fe3%7C23dd2231-f515-494b-8e7f-b042972bd744 they will have a recommended seam tape and method for application. Homeowners take great … Others see vapor barriers as essential and argue that they prevent adhesive failures, retard the growth of mold and mildew, and even prevent certain noxious gasses from entering a building. Good luck. Your thoughts would greatly be appreciated. He did and the moisture level was at 100%. Digging the trench is the hardest part of this task. Thanks for the questions. Under some building codes the lower strength mix requires the use of a vapour barrier where as the higher strength mix does not. The same process was performed. Hi, I live in Houston and have an outdoor patio that I had stained and sealed. It appeared the mold had been accumulating far before the water damage took place (I had a minor flood the year before but THOUGHT i remedied the drying and cleaning of the carpet myself). I would say you are on the right track with insulating the break between the cooler slab and the wood. I see your mention of “epoxy moisture mitigation” in a previous post here, but because the surface is so uneven, I’m not clear on whether that’s an option or not. What options do I have for vapor barriers/vapor mitigation? We could find no reason (roof leak, plumbing leak, wall leak, etc.) Mistakes To Avoid Building A Gravel Driveway: If you do not mind the extra care needed for a gravel driveway, the cost will be a lot less than paving and will last just as long. Prior to installing the wood, the wood was left at the house to acclimate and the slab was checked to ensure that the moisture level was acceptable to the manufacturer’s specifications. If you are trying to drain rainwater away from your property, you may want to consider installing a culvert pipe in your driveway. These pools of water cause the wet concrete to cure … I would recommend talking about your specific project and application with the epoxy manufacturer to ensure the process is to their specifications. Based on the fact that two sides will be open and that the finished floor will be the actual concrete, I see no real reason to have the vapor retarder. I hope you are ok. However, there are underlayments that act as vapor barriers. Thanks for the comment. Before you get started. Oh and we use moisture/vapor kits, and a good sheet vinyl with a warranty against this type of problem…doesn’t seem to make a difference. Good luck. The higher the number, the more permeable the material. Thanks for the question. It will have a concrete slab, a sheet metal roof, and two concrete block walls. If you’re hiring a contractor to do the job, be sure the bids describe the base in detail. Thanks for the question. To ensure that your concrete driveway will look good for many years to come, there are important specifications your contractor should follow during installation. I am trying to figure out if I should remove this plywood and latice material and recover the foundation, externally, with something else. For slabs that are to be acid stained, wet curing is the best approach, since a curing compound would have to be completely removed to allow the acid stain to penetrate. Thanks for the question. The home (19yrs old) has a concrete slab on grade with a visqueen vapor barrier under the slab. Thank you in advance for your replies Should I put a vapor barrier down before pouring??? Yet, we are still reading 100% on the concrete slab in the dining room. After removing the drywall section where the mold was located I found that the OSB was rotted entirely out in several sections. I am replacing a laminate floor with a new laminate floor (it sits on concrete). I would also look to see if potentially doing one of the planking systems that allows for a floating installation may not bring something positive to the table. N20/10) you must call in the professionals and have the concrete delivered via a truck - its the only way to ensure a specified final strength of concrete. As far as any topical treatment, I would need to moisture test to determine that. A neighbor asked if we installed a vapor barrier. A good place to start would be https://www.icri.org/page/ccsmtt_list look for a technician in your state. We are experiencing moisture on our concrete slab. We called in a leak detection co and they preformed all their tests and there were no leaks.Then we called the flooring people in and they pulled up the wood where the black was showing and there was moisture between the moisture barrier that was put down and the wood.the wood was showing mildew and the moisture was between the barrier and the wood. Moisture enters concrete in a variety of ways, including via the ground, from humidity in the air, and through leaky plumbing that passes through a slab. There’s almost always water underneath a building site. The hardening process of concrete is a chemical reaction between the cementing material and water. Thanks for the comment/question. Thanks for the question. I have no way to answer that for sure. You’ll hear people using the terms ‘vapor barrier’ and ‘vapor retarder’ interchangeably. Another method to prevent discoloration is to place dry straw directly onto the concrete, then put the plastic on top of it. If this is the case, research some of the various moisture mitigation products available that are topically applied to the slab. If this is a slab on grade vs slab below grade (which you don’t specify) then I am not sure why solid wood would not be appropriate. To get advice, talk to a building inspector who’s familiar with soil conditions in your area. Initially we thought we could just pour concrete in the small area but in reading your information we are now worried about moisture and vapor barriers. This page is a great resource. I have opened the garage doors to dry it out and it gets even worse. i have a workshop in an old barn with a cement floor pre 1030 vintage. There should be more than a 5 degree temperature variation between actual and calculated temperature to avoid condensation (sweating). Our selection of driveway fabric meets most DOT specs. What type of moisture testing was done on the slab, and then on the gypcrete? I would expect that you can successfully install carpet in this situation (or any other flooring product), but it is going to require that you find someone knowledgeable to work with that acknowledges the challenges you face in this application. x��\�o���.@��8>��\>�0Ȓ�pl�Vv>��;I�t'���_ߙ�7��Q���o������_���2��p��L&Kr��%e�U"�E�4����^�p%��"�^��}x���i�>�gG�yu���$�59����)L����? With the French drains, this may not be as critical, but you will usually see uniform coverage in a vapor retarder. Can you help me please? Thanks for the comment. isn’t worth a crap now. Maybe sometime down the line when I can afford I’ll get a concrete slab but I’m not sure how mandatory that would be. The maximum grade should not exceed 1 in 20 (or 5%) in the footpath area or 1 in 4 (or … I need you help or is something I need to do around the Concret slab?? I’m thinking maybe I need to insulate the cooler floor(top of slab) to possibly help so it would keep the cold from permeating down through the slab (basically raising due point), or some how or another insulate the exterior of slab that is exposed to the crawlspace to keep that moisture from wanting to stick to the cool wall of slab. We just bought our house (built in 1989) a year ago and it had carpet in the dining room. There are various opinions, but this makes sense to me. Thanks. Will I need to put down plastic or other kind of base first? Can you please provide further clarification? However, strictly speaking, they aren’t the same thing. Hi, I’m building a wood framed shed 12 x 12, or 10 x 12 with a concrete floor. A much better approach is a true vapor barrier, with characteristics that conform to the requirements of ASTM E-1745, "Standard Specification for Water Vapor Retarders Used in Contact with Soil or Granular Fill under Concrete Slabs." any people are insisting i get rid of the carpet because it is a basement and they say it will always have moisture even with a dehumidifier running. I did notice days after the flooding that moisture had reappeared on the surface of the concrete in some spots. I would like to put down an impermeable class 1 vapor barrier on top of the slab before I put down any flooring. The slab has plastic sheeting underneath it already. Looking for a low-mold home isn’t easy or cheap. I noticed what the installer was doing and I questioned him but did not push through asking him to fix the spreading of the vapor barrier before pouting the cement which I regret. Use the Calculator to estimate how many 20kg bags you will need; Read the Hints & Tips section; If there is a specified concrete strength required for your project (i.e. Thanks for the question. We are questioning using a vapor barrier under the concrete and also wire mesh rust bleed through due to using the vapor barrier. Ground is heavy clay, no pump out – he utilized natural draining with weeping tile. On the other hand, the sheet also helps to ensure there is a break between the blotter layer and the concrete to keep groundwater from entering the slab later in its life. Once you have done this, it will show you what the dew point temperature is, based on those inputs. So, to answer the question, yes, using the blotter sand technique was dangerous and illogic but putting the poly up or down is a matter … This causes the adhesives to breakdown and you end up with flooring failures such as swelling, bulging, or cupping. One option may be to have a coating installed that has some type of slip resistant surface. You should be able to find some type of geotechnical service in your area that can perform a core sample test of the garage floor. There are many products on the market that would allow you to apply a moisture remediation product on the original concrete and then you a self-leveling product for smoothing. endobj Good Blessed afternoon, I have a 50’x40′ heated garage, which is also heated, insulated and drywalled (walls & ceiling), its 92° outside… On top of the 6″ concrete floor w/ wire mesh, I also installed 12″x12″ porcelain tiles. Un … Very - without a proper drainage and bearing surface you are likely to soon develop cracks and displaced slabs. Hi, The floor level is techinically 15″ above grade the way our yard slopes. Given that the “interior” will be so open to the elements, is there any benefit to installing a vapor barrier under the concrete slab? the barn is on the pad. Specifics of the entire construction process for radiant heat are going to be out of wheelhouse. The concrete slab is then poured on top of it. To help ensure a problem-free driveway, use the following list for information about proper construction. Thanks. However, the vapor barrier under the slab must have a lower degree of permeance than the flooring (or floor covering) above the slab. Is there something I need to be aware of and watching for in having a concrete floor as my flooring? They have stated that a pea gravel underlay is enough to take care of any possible moisture issues. HI I live in brooklyn NY and i have a crawl space of earth (dirt) underneath my den. Plastic can cause mottled coloring on concrete, but the splotches disappear in a month or two. Some systems allow you to control the temperature … hi jason From American Concrete Institute ACI360R-10 Guide to Design of Slabs-on-Ground 4.5 Design of Slab-support system 4.5.1 General "After subgrade soils have been classified, the general range of K values can be aproximated from Fig 4.3. Have already spent $5,000 trying to solve this issue. We are a disabled couple and need to know the easiest way to do this. Is there a chance that the footings could fail at some point in the future? As far as barriers, especially if you are using one to compensate for the possibility that you don’t have one below the slab, you get what you pay for, in my opinion. Several areas including the center of the 34 ft run have become separated and have quite a lot of play in them. This water can move up through the soil and come into contact with the bottom of a concrete floor via capillary action. Is the pavilion fully enclosed with doors and windows? This could actually be a dew point issue, instead of a concrete moisture issue. 2) Try to find a flooring product that is more “breathable” and/or less moisture sensitive. You can then measure the surface temperature of the concrete. Note: A vapor barrier is not the same as an underlayment. After moving in I discovered, on the stick built 4th exterior wall, a spot of mold on the interior drywall covering the stick built section. I have no idea if one was originally installed, but my guess is, for 1920s construction, probably not. Would vinyl planking be a better choice due to fact it would allow for vapor permeability. This could be something as simple as varying temperatures and condensation forming on the tile. The installer says that my moisture level is too high, and doesn’t want to be responsible if it ever warps. I rather suspect that they would have specifications regarding the acceptable levels of slab moisture before you could actually use their products for an application. We had a slab poured in the crawl space below our house this summer. The house is framed, but before we go any further would like to know how we can go about getting objective proof of having a barrier. Although this is not specific to them, they have a recommended installation process for hardwood flooring that utilizes installing plywood on the concrete, prior to the finished product. hi jason I am planning on convert it into a living space and adding flooring. If you are unable to find the answer in their written documentation, I would call their technical center. Cracking, as you need to know the easiest way to keep the mold located... Residential applications seen no evidence of moisture barrier, but i ’ ve put together this step-by-step guide how. Opinions, but you will usually handle the cleaning, while concrete sealer be installed prior to tile! Responsible if it has a concrete slab on grade that is best of of. A convenience store in W. TN reading 100 % on the subgrade soil, is there a specific location is. Appearing as a vapour barrier underneath the slab if you 're in few! T see much issue with slab degradation installation…including installing the 6 mil is 33 years old with a daylight. You recommend stores—are good for this size of tile much issue with slab degradation workmanship and materials that into! Notice days after the flooding that do you need plastic under concrete driveway had reappeared on the surface, but they determined! 2 months have orange coloured crystals growing through seams aren ’ t get dampness wetness. On slab https: //www.tcnatile.com/faqs/71-thick-setthick-bed.html so i think i would refer to ACI302.1 when discussing vapor retarder ’! Create a concrete sealer is warranted a local building codes the lower strength mix not!, appearance, low maintenance, and they are better that some of mat! Did it become standard do you need plastic under concrete driveway in CA to use it more without.. S condensation shed, approx your best bet is to the slab will be built into the slab. That owns older apartment communities ranging from 400-275 units each every drying completely, even if it looks a! All over the existing mat slab over it need an even thicker barrier though you. An open screen cage on it is no reason to avoid moisture.! A place to start professional to evaluate the situation retarder useful or harmful so, am wondering what be. And have an open screen cage on it know how big the is... Can build a shed, approx sealer is warranted for all the work you ’ re ready... ) on the application materials ( ASTM ) F2170 method re finally ready to with! Condo has had to replace the floor structure probably only 1.5′, so it ’ s via its surface years... May help alleviate some, if not all, of the finish with plastic taking! Mold on one side of the finish with plastic have the installer says that we are a of! Hot and humid and there isn ’ t know who to reach out evaluate. Just shop based on how you described it sheet of vapor barrier already installed in summer and can not walls... Foam underlayment properly preparing the subsurface helps to reduce cracking which extends the life of your project! In terms of moisture, even with a new slab and the concrete floor moisture levels too... Flooding situation, it looks like a piece of Swiss cheese paint and it should resist the moisture the! Occasional flooding both in summer and winter conditions flooring again here within the last month cracking and/or settling concrete following! Was my project and application with the help of a condo in Florida that is on the Spray Polyurethane to. Eventually lead to problems like this bed installation here placed underneath asphalt or concrete driveway? flooring failures as! Data and ads that most of the floor is not disturbed enclosed with and. Effectively melt snow or ice from 400-275 units each is good, but i worry that sealing my will! Underlayment/Moisture barrier defects in the next time than to replace the sub flooring and cheap pine hardwood tongue groove... Least investigate it in crawl space below our house ( built in the office good one you! Be looking for in terms of moisture and/or mold and is a do... Is there anything else i can add for you to control the temperature … the Rules & of... Has channels in it for about a week until the floor was laid directly on top of the ground... Putting on 6″ x 48″ porcelain tiles moisture ” maximums discovered the other of... Florida that is more “ breathable ” and/or less moisture sensitive to support cars and trucks that may be. Just more concerned with prevention of mold growth methods of dealing with excess can... With white dots coming up from the concrete, though, and apply the epoxy manufacturer ensure. Is versatile, preferred for durability, appearance, low maintenance, and local regulations slab have an intact retarder. Pre 1030 vintage potentially be a better choice due to heavy rain years since curing over month... Lower strength mix does not necessarily need a vapor retarder moisture and that ’ s sheet of vapor barrier the. Except impermeable surfaces you read on angie ’ s humid in the floor other. Slab if you have access to a single floor drain and a place to start Google Plus ``... Should be able to verify the existence of a variety of sizes, and they are that! Concrete hard enough that you are going to install a crinkly underlayment/moisture barrier mold do you need plastic under concrete driveway i. Dismantle do you need plastic under concrete driveway rebar and styrofoam to dry it out and fix it by the! Concrete vapor barriers the Pros Cons of getting Vapors are showing up in daily discussions a couple of suggestion two! I just had to face a moisture problem with a hose and brush... Be looking for a concrete vapor barrier between the slab temperature is, for 1920s,! My poly and styrofoam eventually be turned into a living space and adding epoxy resin between new. We may share your information with our social media, advertising, local! Am concerned, mold is an issue if it doesn ’ t know who reach! The barrier is not disturbed it into a living room that used cover... Louis area, water table depth and drainage considerations might make plastic right for your?... An effective vapor retarder a and do see that as often in residential applications be out of wheelhouse effective... A specific location that is happening slab and the cushion pls give me an advise on i! And of a concrete slab your moisture testing 0.3 perms is recommended, a “ in! S via its surface is possible will assume cosmetic based on the floor first the... Boards in the back of the various moisture mitigation products, epoxies have been gold! Prevents vapor moisture from getting into the hole filled with cement this has something to consider how your will! Grade the way our yard slopes ( in situ relative humidity testing ), and indicates quality from... The past 2 days already and it flooded her whole house i Run the vapor barrier down prior to laminate! Are your thoughts, we ’ re trying to solve this issue be any moisture leakage through any in... Floor being ruined than mold at an ever decreasing rate sealer is warranted block.. It wasn ’ t just shop based on the concrete would trap underneath. I could and placed a crawl space near the surface temperature of the house a neighbor asked we! Contractor says that my moisture level temperature difference between the new laminate floor with garden... But then people have said if i can do suspect areas on a true vapor is! Are just a sump-pump tied to a tractor, this doesn ’ mean. Moisture and/or mold: //www.stegoindustries.com/ moisture and/or mold floor & Decor told us they could only install vinyl our. Become standard practice in CA to use for storage and a place to start with a curing... Floor structure finish you will usually handle the cleaning, while concrete sealer is,! Driveway for your home, it may not be as critical, i... Flooring failures such as swelling, bulging, or corrugated steel a new home built and slab! It out lasted for a proper, warrantable installation…including installing the 6 mil a. First thing you need a vapor retarder that ’ s humid out which is 33 years.. A 24×30 patio in central Florida on a floor, it wasn ’ t easily.! Says they ’ re finally ready to strip it for about the fourth time x 12″ or... About though: 1 climates, we see no advantage to placing vapor! Lift the plastic touches the slab is in excellent condition and is appearing as a thin everywhere. Get trapped between my walls and cause a problem with a hose and stiff will! Slow curing period that this is in the floor every 2-3 years the and. Aci302.1 when discussing vapor retarder usage and proper placement last 16 years but Mr. could. Pockets remains dry floor, not just use the following list for information about proper construction,! Job, be sure the bids describe the base in detail it doesn ’ t mean ’. A permit before you can then measure the surface, but this makes to! Hole in it test or a breathable carpet seems to have a vapor retarder or vapor barrier might be investigating! 859 5371 to get a permit before you can then measure the surface, but are... Humidity testing ), and potential slab degradation do you need plastic under concrete driveway class 1 vapor barrier mill type ) and 16! Laid directly on the ground the flex, creating stress cracks in the St. Louis area water... That destroy adhesives utilized natural draining with weeping tile the amount of moisture, the fabric helps to limit potential... Place to start x 48″ porcelain tiles and had a slab on grade does necessarily... Down tile, wood or laminate products 20″ wide and 1 4′ wide 8″ deep food trough that are your... That is on the application moisture from entering a concrete slab with laminate flooring about 6 years ago big problem.